++++Plans to finish MIR Event, PLEASE READ++++

[Richard Maitre]

Looks like the majority of racers are going to be in attendance at VMP so we are going to try and get the final rounds in from MIR there. I will talk with Marc tomorrow about additional quailying for 10.5 and AMI, hopefully we can get these final passes out of the way. So those of you still in, plan on fini9sjing at VMP!!

Rich

[grosspeed2k4]

Cool

[bad_bu]

damn, your killing me. rich, pm me with rules.  Janet will not be there.

[Richard Maitre]

We discussed this Kevin. You can have someone else drive the car at the event.

Rich

[bad_bu]

does she still acumulate points are are they surrendored?  i was only kidding before rich.  i know you got alot on your plate.  and finding a place to finish the MIR race just adds to it. 

[Richard Maitre]

she accumulates all of the points up to that point if she does not show, or if another person fills in she gets their points as a team. Hope you, she, someone can make it, lol.

Rich

[McCloud Motorsport]

We discussed this Kevin. You can have someone else drive the car at the event.

Rich

Somebody need a driver for VMP?? ?? ?? LOL

[bad_bu]

i got one in the works, just waiting on some rule confirmation from my man rich.  he only drives 4-doors though.  wonder if he can adjust.

[racecarpop]

First off I think this is all wrong. If a couple of people are signed up at the beginning of the year to run the same car that is a team. To me that does not mean that they can switch drivers at any time during a race. If we had stayed and run this race after a rain delay at MIR she would have been racing the car. Now to think that we may change drivers and/or cars is not fair to the other drivers still left in the race. I am going to have laser surgery on my eye this afternoon to correct a torn retina. Does this mean I can have Dan come down there and finish the race for me in his or my car? This is not fair to the people left who are willing to make the commitment to run all the races. I have been fighting my eye issue all year. You have all seen me there doing my best with one eye. Not once have I asked for any consessions like this. I'm sorry but if Rich makes the decision to finish the race and you can't make it, my opinion is that you are out and that is that. The person and car in the race when it is suspended should be the combination on the line at the continuation of the race.

[Richard Maitre]

Thanks for the phone call this morning Tom, my brain has been smokin since. You have some good points and our existing rules do not state whether this is only for the beginning of a new event or if it can happen during the same event. I guess we will continue to run into these hurdles as we go along and after another ten years we will have fine tuned the rules to death. But I kinda do agree with one of your points you made this morning. If a racer's car in competition breaks, its not fair nor have we seen anyone try to jump in another vehicle to finish the event, when he/she breaks, they are broke. Give me one day to consider this scenerio and I will have my decision.

Rich

[bad_bu]

your absolutly correct about the race being finished in MIR, in a perfect world it would have.  it came as a surprise to me that someone else was able to jump into the car and finish the race.  Rich can attest that i have questioned him privatley, and i assure you, there was no funny bussiness being attempted.  i simply asked him about when the race will be finished, and explained that she will not be there.  I was instructed that somone else could finish the race.  nobody is asking for "concessions", but if we were able to work within the rules...i would.  please be assured that we are dedicated to this series, and incur the expense of getting 2 racecars to these events, not 1.

well then i ask you to please consider that the car/nor the driver were planning to attend the virginia event.  so, if only 4-5 of the 6 drivers remaining are not going to be at virginia, but all can and will be at another remaining race...maybe rich can make the decision to continue it there?

rich, again...if your decision to finish is at virginia...then so be it.  it's ashame she is loosing the opportunity due to a few rain drops. 

[BruceWilkie]

My 2 cents. No sub at a race. However this being a makeup race changes things. If a team had originally planned to NOT go to VMP due to schedule problem and the driver cant make the MAKEUP race then perhaps an exception should be made. After all they were ready to race but the race was suspended. I could also consider a sub driver during a regular race IF some catastrophy happened where the driver ended up hospitalized due to a heart attack or some such true disaster not related to racing. Perhaps in either of those instances a team member could be a sub. A car cannot be subbed for any reason. In this case above the team and car and substitute driver should only be allowed to compete in the makeup event.

Rich has the say on this! NOT me

[racecarpop]

You have to look at all the situations completely. I don't really care if the race gets continued at VMP  but what I do care about is that the people who were in at the end complete the race with the cars involved. Since we are changing locations I don't have a problem with an index change but car and/or driver I do. It is Rich's decision.

[Rich Smith]

First off I think this is all wrong. If a couple of people are signed up at the beginning of the year to run the same car that is a team. To me that does not mean that they can switch drivers at any time during a race. If we had stayed and run this race after a rain delay at MIR she would have been racing the car. Now to think that we may change drivers and/or cars is not fair to the other drivers still left in the race. I am going to have laser surgery on my eye this afternoon to correct a torn retina. Does this mean I can have Dan come down there and finish the race for me in his or my car? This is not fair to the people left who are willing to make the commitment to run all the races. I have been fighting my eye issue all year. You have all seen me there doing my best with one eye. Not once have I asked for any consessions like this. I'm sorry but if Rich makes the decision to finish the race and you can't make it, my opinion is that you are out and that is that. The person and car in the race when it is suspended should be the combination on the line at the continuation of the race.

Jezz man, ease up alittle bit.....Your sitting in 3rd in points.....The driver in question is sitting in like 17th

The way I read the rules a replacement driver is completely legal. You should be able to find a replacement driver as well if you cant make the race. I see no problem changing drivers......its the being able to change cars part of the rule is a bit goofy.

[bad_bu]

the car that started the race will be there to finish depending on Rich's ruling.

[racecarpop]

I have worked hard to be third in points and why should I let a substitute driver and/or car compete against me that did not earn that position. Put yourself in my position, I do not think it is right. And if this substitute driver would go on to win this race should they be intitled to the purse? Here is another situation, what happens if we do not finish the race at VMP. Does everyone get to switch drivers and cars around again?I think I will ask dan to run for me.

[TnE Falcon]

Ok Tom,
I charge 50% of winnings plus expenses  

[Ron Rhodes]

I have always thought that the points should follow the Driver.  Just my thoughts.

[bad_bu]

I have worked hard to be third in points and why should I let a substitute driver and/or car compete against me that did not earn that position. Put yourself in my position, I do not think it is right. And if this substitute driver would go on to win this race should they be intitled to the purse? Here is another situation, what happens if we do not finish the race at VMP. Does everyone get to switch drivers and cars around again?I think I will ask dan to run for me.

unfortunently its not YOUR decision.  we are not switching drivers as a strategy, its a circumstance.  again if rich says NO, i will not peep another word about it.  actually i wouldnt be saying anything, except i feel the need to defend myself/or my wife (who has no clue any of this is happening). 

if you feel the need to put Dan in your car, i say strap em' up and "lets roll".  personally i have enjoyed the lanes with dan, and the competion.  I have 1 up on him, but i know better than to think that will remain.  My man Sadono though has one coming...he has my number for sure.  2 races in a row he has put me on a trailer....lol.

by rule, this situation is not directly addressed. however Rich has been aware of it. i know this Because a friend of mine ran another car in competition this year. when he registered, rich asked him if he was driving the car to earn points for himself, or the other driver.  so, you cant change rules in mid stream.  make the rule adjutment for next season, and move on.

some racers race thier whole career to be part of a field trimmed to 6 cars, let alone a field that started with some of the best racers in the area.

for what it is worth...i want janet to finish the race herself, and would preffer that another track/race weekend be chosen.  however if rich chooses to finish the race in virginia, then so be it...i realize i am not the only driver he needs to accomodate no matter if im 3rd, 7th or 17th in points.  i just hope the decision is based on all circumstances, and not just one that appeazes the "squeakiest wheel".

[bad_bu]

I have always thought that the points should follow the Driver.  Just my thoughts.

i agree, and this might prompt "upper management" to change the rules to be just that.

points should follow the driver, not the car.  which is why i dont understand slower indexes not being allowed.  it might raise the car counts and eventually the purses. 

[shadow41246]

 is this whole 1 driver/ 2 car or 2 driver/ 1 car  deal preset at the beginning of the season, what drivers, cars are on what teams, so everyone knows whats what ? i don't see a problem with a BACKUP driver, or that matter a SECOND car. if a second car is used, hopefully it can run the index the DRIVER chose for that event, by the rules no changing INDEX during the race.  GOOD LUCK GUYS/ GALS    SHADOW 

[CHVL71402]

Here is a link to the way another series handles the substitute car/driver situation
http://www.karl-ellwein.org/ecirsrules.htm

Dave

[racecarpop]

First off this decussion is not pointed towards or against anyone. I am not like that. People who know me know that. I am just against the fact that we started a race and I don't care where it is finished the people who started it and are still in, should finish it. If something happens in between, that's racing. It would be no different if there was a problem at the track during the course of a race. I am not being a sqeaky wheel just expressing my opinion as you are. I don't know about what happened in the other class so I cannot voice an opinion on that.

[shadow41246]

 TOM, this whole 2 car / 2 driver deal needs to be more defined, not too many particulars. i see your point!     SHADOW   

[460vert]

Nothing like jumping in the middle of a cat fight...but here goes....  In my opinion (which I realize does not matter..lol), I think that points should go to a driver period (no teams).  Maybe Rich wants to address this in the off season.  However, the way I read the current rules is that it is allowed and therefore, should not be changed mid season.  If I was still in the MIR race and had to run Janet's car next round I would be bitter about the situation as well.  However, I knew that two driver teams were allowed in this series before I decided to join.

On another issue, I do not think that it is right to question someones commitment to the series over having to miss one race.  I can assure you that Kevin has spent more money this past off season getting two cars and tow setups ready to run this series.  He had been racing dragsters for a long time before making the decision to run this series so he needed new EVERYTHING.   

I can certainly appreciate the fact that Tom (and others I'm sure) do not want her car being driven by another driver because it may cost them points if they get beat.  However, those are the rules and it does not make it any more "fair" to just give the round win to someone because they are able to make it to Virginia.  (Especially, with Dan out in the first round....thank God...lol).

In closing...geez this is getting formal, I think that the rule needs to be taken out for teams at the end of the season.  However, because it is clearly stated that teams are allowed, they should be allowed this season.  The whole situation about changing drivers half way through a race makes this one a little touchy.  However, she is not trying to change a driver at the same race just to give her any advantage.  Honestly, and I love Janet, but she is a rookie and her chances of doing very well are pretty low (not that I have room to talk this season). Is it going to kill anyone to have her move up in points a little? 

Hopefully, I have not offended Tom or anyone else here, but I felt the need to chime in with my two cents.  Ultimately, this decision is going to made by Rich and we all just have to live with that decision.

Scott Dalrymple

[shadow41246]

 SCOTT what is your opinion on the 2 car issue, most likely your not taking 2 cars to every race, but can you change cars during a race for whatever reason.  SHADOW 

[racecarpop]

Scott you are intitled to your opinion. Again I offer, where does it say in the rules that you can change drivers in the middle of a race on a team car. I thought the reason behind a team was to allow for more people to race, with the same car. two people in a car two separate entrance fees. One going out does not allow the other to take the place of the one still in. I do not have a problem with Janet moving up in points but you must realize I am in a points race also, or did you forget Scott.

[McCloud Motorsport]

Looks like a pretty gray area here. Maybe you all should flip a coin for it like lane choice.  j/k

[pokadot1]

I am going to have laser surgery on my eye this afternoon to correct a torn retina.

 Tom  how did the eye surgery go?  I hope ok. I'm pulling for 100% recovery for you.

Take care my friend
 Cliff

[Richard Maitre]

The original thought in the team racing was to allow for a sportsman racer (not professional, has to work for a living) to be able to have his car make it to all of the events and not miss any due to work or other situations unforseen and would allow another driver to fill in for that event but the points would still go with the original driver. It was also to allow someone whos car was in the shop to bring another vehicle to accumulate points, as long as the car was legal for the class. But little did I know that there may be an issue with changing drivers in the middle of a race. That was not the intention of the rule. It definately was not meant for 2 different drivers to run the same car at one event for each to accumulate their own points. I just wanted a way to keep from falling car counts due to unforseen circumstances.

Well since there needs to be a decision made and even though both sides of this issue have presented themselves well (all except MM, lol). I have reached what I think to be a fair and logical decision. Whatever driver that has started an event must finish that event to the end, but different racers are allowed at each seperate event. As far as the car goes: The car that started the event must finish that event, but can be substituted for each individual event.

I apologize to Kevin for originally telling him he could have another driver for the conclusion of the event, I should of put more thought into the matter before I spoke. I am terribly sorry that Janet cant make it to VMP (is there any chance that her situation may change?) This decision was made without trying to personally upset or benefit anyone, its just another in a long line of decisions that will need to be made along the way as we run into them.

Rich

[racecarpop]

All I hope there are no hard feelings about this. That was never my intention. Janet I hope you can make the race. Rich if you have to move the makeup to another time that better suits everyone I am up for that.
Cliff thanks for asking about the eye surgery. They did a liquid /gas exchange where they drain my eye then add a bubble of special gas to it. Then I have to lay in a certain position to allow the gas to contact where they put the implant behind my eye. Then Thursday they sealed it all with a laser. The vision is back and getting clearer every minute. I will still have a small bubble next week but it should be alright. The amazing thing about all of this is that we have the technology to repair stuff like this. Ten years ago I would have lost my eyesight in the eye. I have been dealing with this since April, I hope this is it.see you at VMP

[bad_bu]

The original thought in the team racing was to allow for a sportsman racer (not professional, has to work for a living) to be able to have his car make it to all of the events and not miss any due to work or other situations unforseen and would allow another driver to fill in for that event but the points would still go with the original driver. It was also to allow someone whos car was in the shop to bring another vehicle to accumulate points, as long as the car was legal for the class. But little did I know that there may be an issue with changing drivers in the middle of a race. That was not the intention of the rule. It definately was not meant for 2 different drivers to run the same car at one event for each to accumulate their own points. I just wanted a way to keep from falling car counts due to unforseen circumstances.

Well since there needs to be a decision made and even though both sides of this issue have presented themselves well (all except MM, lol). I have reached what I think to be a fair and logical decision. Whatever driver that has started an event must finish that event to the end, but different racers are allowed at each seperate event. As far as the car goes: The car that started the event must finish that event, but can be substituted for each individual event.

I apologize to Kevin for originally telling him he could have another driver for the conclusion of the event, I should of put more thought into the matter before I spoke. I am terribly sorry that Janet cant make it to VMP (is there any chance that her situation may change?) This decision was made without trying to personally upset or benefit anyone, its just another in a long line of decisions that will need to be made along the way as we run into them.

Rich

rich, like i said i respect your decision.  i am not gonna try and persuade you differently.  like i already mentioned, i completly agree that changing drivers made no sense to me...but heck, money is on the line (i wasnt too concerned about points).  however, if there is any chance of you to maybe re-consider completing that race elsewhere (if it doesnt hurt another driver) that would be ideal.  heck we are only talking 3 pairs of cars going down the track...we could fit that anywhere. 

[Matt Jewell]

Rich, I'm pretty sure this is how you handled it when we had to finish Atco at MIR 2 years ago. My brother was without car, and was going to have my brother in law finish the Atco race with a different car for him. It held true then.I beleieve you did allow cars that were still in to change indexes. unforseen circumstances.

[shadow41246]

MATT, would't changes in the INDEXES not be allowed , because it was a continuence of a race & not a different race  ?   also different car & different driver ?  so NOW it is, SAME car, driver & index ?  SHADOW 

[Richard Maitre]

I did and will allow a change in indexes for the fact we are at a new facility. This is what I have planned for there but should talk to Marc at VMP first, lol. I will allow everyone a regular qualifyer first then the second round will be pairings and we will try to get in a third shot for you guys if its possible, if not we will squeeze the rounds in thru-out the day.

Rich